tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post949435570661235603..comments2024-03-24T18:59:07.813-07:00Comments on ZENOPUS ARCHIVES: Megarry's Copy of the Great Kingdom MapZenopus Archiveshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14069501995927451558noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-70121694839058572032017-02-10T10:45:23.389-08:002017-02-10T10:45:23.389-08:00Zenopus,
We've been really excited about the w...Zenopus,<br />We've been really excited about the work you and Dan Boggs are doing on this map.<br /><br />We were halfway into writing a comment to your article, when we realized that our reponse WAS an article.<br /><br />We'll post a link instead:<br />https://www.facebook.com/blackmoorsecrets/posts/1297546583638187<br /><br />Thanks for the inspiring blog post!Secrets of Blackmoor: A D&D documentaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04229246797371917412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-91734503183934352292017-02-07T21:47:51.354-08:002017-02-07T21:47:51.354-08:00Fantastic stuff - I just finished reading Quag Kee...Fantastic stuff - I just finished reading Quag Keep for the first time and connections between the novel and this map were quite apparent. Norton even gives a couple of shout-outs to the Temple of the Frog.<br /><br />Thanks for posting!D. Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08277670673178463645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-17900332745907411902017-02-06T20:27:58.297-08:002017-02-06T20:27:58.297-08:00David, thanks for continued commentary and fascina...David, thanks for continued commentary and fascinating stories!Zenopus Archiveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14069501995927451558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-41852942868339368262017-02-05T23:00:21.366-08:002017-02-05T23:00:21.366-08:00Havard
I think the numbers and outlining was done ...Havard<br />I think the numbers and outlining was done by Arneson. There is an implication that the Duchy of Ten was encroaching on The Great Kingdom and cutting off Blackmoor from The Great Kingdom. The only writing that could be mine is the word "Capital" The beginning of the word is something I would say is mine but the 'tal' seems not to be. I am leaning towards the interpretation that it is all Arneson. The map was given to me as a FYI activity. I don't remember ever using it in my game play, but my impression is that other players were more intimately involved with it.<br /><br />You must understand, I was mostly a loner in the Blackmoor Campaign. To give you an example of this fact I will relate the Temple of the Frog banishment and my relationship to that event.<br /><br />Apparently the other players had depleted NPC's from the town of Blackmoor and the surrounding villages in their adventuring. This incensed the character played by Arneson (the Earl or Duke, I can't remember what title Dave A. used) and he banished all the players to the Swamp. I am fairly convinced he wanted us to play test the Temple of the Frog scenario he had created. So everyone left. Arneson told me that I was not subject to the banishment as I had never used NPC's in my adventures. But everyone was leaving Blackmoor. He told me I could stay and continue in Blackmoor but I would be out of the mainstream of what the rest of the players would be doing. I could go the Temple of the Frog but would have to make the journey on my own. I choose to follow the group.<br /><br />I "cleverly" decided I would travel there as a leper and acquired a robe and bell. Unbeknownst to me, I choose the wrong color for the robe! So I followed the group, ringing my bell, thinking I was being a leper. Pete Gaylord, the Wizard, was part of the rear guard for the group. He finally noticed me and Arneson explained to him that a figure in a white robe with a bell was following the group. (Leper robes are supposed to be yellow!)Pete looked at me for awhile, and decided I was some powerful Wizard and decided to leave me alone, as long as I was keeping a safe distance from the group. I, of course, am keeping a safe distance from the group as I don't want to get involved with "imperial entanglements" to coin a phrase. I was revealed when we finally got there, but was told that Pete was on the verge of throwing one of his "fireballs" at me, but decided that if I was a powerful wizard, I could harm him, so he didn't do anything! How much Arneson dissuaded him by his description of my actions, I will never know: he did not really tell me what he told Pete...<br /><br />So my "lonerness" put me into a special category and it was a role I kept in all my characters (except the Scholaress, who was part of Arneson's court circle). Which character went to The Temple of the Frog is not clear to me, so dating this story is still part of the "fog of war"...<br /><br />FYI, the electrostatic technology ran from the 1950's to the 1980's so it doesn't help us date this map.<br /><br />MegarryDavid Megarryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00192965579879746502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-69004430163614764852017-02-05T13:06:03.545-08:002017-02-05T13:06:03.545-08:00It now appears to printed on electrostatic paper n...It now appears to printed on electrostatic paper not mimeograph. I will investigate that technology to get a time bracket of use. It may not be specific enough, however.David Megarryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00192965579879746502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-36295001755655646392017-02-05T05:13:00.215-08:002017-02-05T05:13:00.215-08:00Wow, awesome map! Seriously, I find this map much ...Wow, awesome map! Seriously, I find this map much more to my liking than even the published World of Greyhawk (which I adore). I would love to see a Darlene rendering of this map in fact. It seems to have just the right amount of nations without feeling cramped (as the published Greyhawk does in some cases). Brooklyn Red Leghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02649492866049982193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-66927806598090686722017-02-05T03:24:14.181-08:002017-02-05T03:24:14.181-08:00David, thanks for responding to my question! :) Wh...David, thanks for responding to my question! :) What I meant was that I thought Arneson was keeping the maps from his players. But it is interesting to hear your story since it could mean that the players he considered closer friends (more regular players?) were given more information. <br /><br />Do you know if the labels written in blue and red ink were also added by Arneson? Or are they your own notes added through what you learned in the game? <br /><br />Thank you so much again for sharing the map and stories! I am enjoying this very much! :)Havard:https://www.blogger.com/profile/03672640381532559035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-20321835934031753652017-02-04T06:30:01.908-08:002017-02-04T06:30:01.908-08:00Thanks for crossposting this at the Greyhawk forum...Thanks for crossposting this at the Greyhawk forum at The Piazza:<br />http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17299<br /><br />I am still improving my Greyhawk-fu, so I'm not yet aware of all the exact differences between the map Dave Arneson gave to David Megarry and the official Greyhawk maps that came out later, but this is a historically important document and I'm very glad that you drew my attention to it.David Big Mac Shepheardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03268022143324138119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-22739213838882873122017-02-04T00:05:30.401-08:002017-02-04T00:05:30.401-08:00Zenopus Archives, It is somewhat interesting to pu...Zenopus Archives, It is somewhat interesting to push this material out to the world to discover that I was part of a bigger gaming system than I realized. It is like going to Rome to meet someone in my backyard from Minnesota. I do appreciate your analysis and am glad I have pushed the limits of our understanding of this marvelous phenomenon I was part of so early on...David Megarryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00192965579879746502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-60079524235288657782017-02-03T23:57:21.246-08:002017-02-03T23:57:21.246-08:00Havard, as to the date of this map, I run into the...Havard, as to the date of this map, I run into the problem of timing of creation and timing of my getting it. I think I got this map late in the game, almost to the point that I got it after the first D&D was published. But that does not mean it was created at that time. I think this was created earlier; the copy I have is on a mimeograph type paper which would have been available to us at the University of Minnesota as we were students (and a dim memory of me trying to do copying on a mimeograph of something is starting to come back to me). Arneson's Father worked for IT&T and had access to Xerox technology which is why later works are done on regular paper. When Father Arneson started to do copying for DArn is unclear to me, but it did start to happen.<br /><br />It wasn't until I showed Arneson Dungeon! that we became closer in our friendship (the same goes for Wesely) as a mutual recognition of talent was established. Until that point, I was just another player in his campaign (though Wesely says he noticed me before that point..;) IMHO. I think I got a copy of this map after that point. If I did the mimeograph of it, it would have been after July, 1971 and before Jun 1972, when I no longer had access to that technology. Otherwise if would have been later, maybe in 1973. The copy I have is not folded, so unless DArn sent it to me in the mail in a manila envelope while I was living in Boston 1974 - 1975, he might have given it to me in Lake Geneva in 1976 when I moved there to be the Treasurer of TSR.<br /><br />I wish I had been more prolific in keeping a journal at that time; it would make this memory journey so much easier.<br /><br />But I am rambling at 2AM in the morning...David Megarryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00192965579879746502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-6306761498861043312017-02-03T23:38:22.888-08:002017-02-03T23:38:22.888-08:00Havard, there are too many David's in this sto...Havard, there are too many David's in this story/history. Which one are you talking about? MegarryDavid Megarryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00192965579879746502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-31520666110263862642017-02-03T23:06:22.855-08:002017-02-03T23:06:22.855-08:00Expanded the entry for the Contested Area in view ...Expanded the entry for the Contested Area in view of Dan's suggestion that it might be what became the Wild Coast.Zenopus Archiveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14069501995927451558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-65844211245432979602017-02-03T22:18:39.733-08:002017-02-03T22:18:39.733-08:00Great stuff, some nice updates to the map. I thin...Great stuff, some nice updates to the map. I think w/ the new notes you could run a campaign on this map pretty nicely.James McCannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18071008782847309923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-57446095289937242632017-02-03T21:27:04.252-08:002017-02-03T21:27:04.252-08:00You are welcome!You are welcome!Zenopus Archiveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14069501995927451558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-79572635085430299402017-02-03T21:26:31.139-08:002017-02-03T21:26:31.139-08:00Just expanded the notes for the Great Kingdom, wit...Just expanded the notes for the Great Kingdom, with regard to the "Royal Demense" and the provinces.Zenopus Archiveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14069501995927451558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-13064461311727120882017-02-03T13:19:53.632-08:002017-02-03T13:19:53.632-08:00Amazing! Love seeing that! I always thought Dave w...Amazing! Love seeing that! I always thought Dave would not give away his maps. Thanks for sharing it. Do we know how old this map is?Havard:https://www.blogger.com/profile/03672640381532559035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-59812192044667052172017-02-03T10:37:40.789-08:002017-02-03T10:37:40.789-08:00Nice! The placement of Keoland and the three tribu...Nice! The placement of Keoland and the three tributaries of the "Vold" definitely fit with Nortonian Greyhawk. Also, as you mention, the Hither Hills. <br /><br />I was really hoping that Narm would show up but I suspect that the "-ar-" placenames--Lar and... Plarth? being two others that come to mind--are Norton's own invention. Timrod https://www.blogger.com/profile/15308269015770538709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4046247285022763255.post-82227762045305494672017-02-03T08:27:57.234-08:002017-02-03T08:27:57.234-08:00I really appreciate all these historical perspecti...I really appreciate all these historical perspectives you post, Z. Thank you. Piperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12770517741281593733noreply@blogger.com